Diagnosis of the air-conditioning system can be done in the same way as with R134a. eBay requires that anyone posting an auction for R12 check that the buyer has that certification, but eBay has no way to enforce it. dye and seal. But, if your old compressor has lock-up or if your current expansion valve is not functional it would wise to replace the expansion valve with a valve designed for R134a. As this product is highly damaging to the environment, the environmental treaty signed in Montreal in 1987 stopped the use of CFC refrigerants, which included R12. To take one of these and convert it to R134a was usually a recipe for disappointment. The major difference between these two refrigerants is their chemical composition. Sponsored. Bottom line, R134a simply doesn't cool as well as R12. Also, since R134a uses synthetic oil, it has a low global warming potential, unlike R12 which uses mineral oil which poses a negative environmental impact. I think that, with hindsight, many people would agree that, even given that R12 is an ozone-destroying agent, fines of this level made many hard-working A/C technicians hostile to the government, and thus were counterproductive. R12 is a powerful ozone depleted, while R134a and R1234yf are not. This is used in automotive air conditioning in older vehicles and domestic and commercial air conditioning and refrigeration. 1. Therefore, the higher the factor of the chemical (compound), the greater its effect on global warming. R12s GWP is 10,910. The first vehicle that used the R1234yf refrigerant was the 2013 Cadillac XTS. This is because the pressure temperature relationship of R-12 and R-134a is different. Statisicaly your friend was lucky. A comparison between R12 vs. R134a temperature will show that R12 has a higher temperature than R134a. Besides, R134a refrigerant was manufactured after R12 was banned to help reduce the harshness of the old chemical (R12) on the ozone layer. Weve been talking about air conditioning for a couple of weeks now, so if youre still feeling the heat then its time to wrap up the series so you can get out to your garage and put what youve learned to good use. This means that the tiny droplets of oil from the compressor that end up in the refrigerant will be returned via the compressors refrigerant; they wont block pipes. Amazon.com: Lichamp HVAC R410A Manifold Gauge Set AC R134A, Freon R22 R12 has a GWP of 10,910, so its effect on global warming is over 10,000 times greater than carbon dioxide. This is a highly desirable property as it means that the boiling point is always below the targeted temperature. R134a won't provide the same level of cooling as R12, though. A/C R12-to-R12a Refrigerant Recharge Results - Forums Attach the R134a charge port adaptors, there are two types.. one of which you need to remove the old R12 valve cores. This boiling point means that itll condense with moderate pressure, so applications can use a lower pressure condenser to achieve the same results. Pressure Temperature Table If it is adjustable there will be an adjustment screw between the two terminals. They behave in the same way when used in any form of refrigeration or air conditioning plant. Start the car again and add R12A to bring the low side pressure to about 32 psi. Its improbable that any new installation will be built that uses this refrigerant as its use is deemed highly undesirable in many countries and international environmental treaties discourage its use. In more serious, it could result in cardiac irregularities or death. While contained within a refrigeration system, this product is safe to use and poses no risk to the planet. The approval is very legal one, governed by the U.S. EPA. All refrigeration plants use compressors to compress the gas returning from collecting heat, raise its temperature further, and compress it to facilitate cooling. In most cases, the systems used have varied components, designs, and service ports. R134a is NOT less efficient than R12 Actually R134a is more efficient. R134a vs. R12 - Griffiths Any new installation of refrigeration or air conditioning wont use R134a as a refrigerant as the production and importation of this gas to the US has been banned. 29. R134a wont damage the earths ozone layer. These properties make it very attractive for domestic, commercial, and automotive refrigeration and air conditioning. Hell, its possible that not all of the original A/C components are even there anymore. Also, the EPA 609 certification can be easily obtained by taking an online exam. It belongs to a class of chemicals known as HFCs, and they dont contain chlorine, so R134a doesnt damage the ozone layer. Next, add a can of R12a from the low side fitting while running your A/C. EPA is authorized to assess fines of up to $37,500 per day for any violation of these regulations.. A comparison between R12 vs. R134a temperature will show that R12 has a higher temperature than R134a. How to Convert Your Car AC R12 System To R134a - Mechanic Base For instance you can evacuate FRIGC FR-12 into a refrigerant recovery bottle that has R134a in it or visa versa. Instead, top off R12 with R134a refrigerant. Hopefully after you have read this entire page you will have enough information to determine which type of refrigerant is best for you. Its been used in the refrigeration industry for a long time, so theres a large body of knowledge established around the product. The next piece of equipment to track down leaks is a leak sniffer. When this happens, the chlorine in the product contributes significantly to the ozone layers depletion, leading to a lack of protection from harmful radiation. We, the Rxmechanic team, have presented a well-detailed comparison of R134a vs. R12. Swapping the components isnt a herculean task, but recharging the AC is a challenge. Another way to check is to look at the air conditioning connectors. Alternator Overcharging - Causes and Fixes. What is usually sniffed are all the connections in the system: hoses and compressor, condenser, drier, expansion valve and evaporator fittings. This means that the oil used in the system must be compatible with the refrigerant in use. As these two products essentially do the same job, there are many similarities between the two refrigerants. R12 was used mainly in domestic and commercial refrigeration, while R134a was used mainly by the automotive industry. Theres a lot of misinformation surrounding R12. We learned the theory behind refrigeration and air conditioning, which centers on this wonderfully useful bit of physics: When liquid boils and evaporates into a gas, it expands and cools. All in all, I'm very happy with the results and see no reason why they won't last. R134a is not an ozone-destroying agent, but it is a greenhouse gas, and is illegal to vent as well. So if you car has a large amount of rubber hose, such as a 40 feet with the 911, then you will be re-charging the system often and that is expensive no matter which refrigerant you use. Then subtract 0.25 pounds. Before landing on the debate of R134 vs R12 you should know that both R134a and R12 are AC refrigerants types used in refrigeration and air conditioning systems. Inasmuch as R134a has a global warming potential thats over 1000 times more threatening than carbon dioxide, its better than R12. That doesnt mean to say that there are still many thousands of existing installations that are running refrigeration plants using this refrigerant to cool them. Whether R134a performs as well as R12 in any given a/c system depends upon system components and the amount of R134a used. Technicians must capture and recycle R134a safely, and the gas must be disposed of by following the EPA guidelines. $34.99. Gauges are used to read the pressure of various liquids and gases in a cooling system, as well as vacuum pressure in the process of testing or charging the device. Shut off your car and once again let out all the pressure. I am currently retired and no longer do much with HVAC, however, I feel like I have a lot of knowledge in the subject and I wanted to create a website where I could talk about what I've learned and help upcoming HVAC techs. In contrast, the most likely reason youd consider recharging with an alternative refrigerant is because the refrigerant leaked out of your car and youre trying to avoid doing a full-on A/C rejuvenation which includes finding the leak and properly changing refrigerants. As you probably know, matter can exist in three statessolid, liquid, and gas. There are kits that convert R12 to R134a. Lets have a closer look at these similarities and differences. You can recharge your A/C system with chicken soup (lousy refrigerant, by the way) and no black helicopters will come to your house, but in a world where people usually dont hold onto their cars forever, R134a is still the best choice for retrofit applications. If he is not in the garage fixing challenging mechanical problems, he is writing automotive repair guides, buyers guides, and car and tools comparisons. rate between the temperature range of -40 C and -10 C is R134a liquid's, while the lowest is the R1270's. Having a low mass flow rate with in the system is a parameter that reduces the cost of operating. Since 2010, all home AC systems manufactured use a refrigerant like R134a that has zero ozone depletion potential (ODP). Remove the old mineral oil from the compressor by turning it upside down, side to side, and turn the front hub on the clutch assembly. These two refrigerants are very similar. You can get it and use it. When theyre in a liquid state, theyll remove heat from air passing over the pipes theyre in and slowly evaporate to form a gas. R12s boiling point is -21.6F or -29.8C. The problems that arise are related to the oils used in the system and the fact that they have different charge weights and different boiling points. Generally the system will be initially charged with approximately 80% to 85% of the original amount of R12, using R134a. R1234yf is more environmentally friendly and has a global warming potential of 4. This means that when exposed to the environment, it exists as a gas. And it was safeneither poisonous to breathe, nor flammable. Its likely that these plants, which will be expensive to convert, will continue to use R12 with careful maintenance. These guidelines are strictly enforced, and contravention of them can lead to severe penalties being imposed. Motor manufacturers in the USA used R134a in air conditioning systems for new cars from 1994. As this chemical has carbon, hydrogen, and fluorine but no chlorine, its not dangerous to the ozone layer. Boiling Point: R134a refrigerants boiling point is -26.3C (-15.34F). Refrigerant 134a, or R134a, was developed as an alternative to the CFC refrigerants known to cause environmental damage. You might find that the system doesn't get as cool even after properly charging it. They might say for instance, add 3-4 oz of oil to the compressor, 1 oz of oil for when you replace a drier, 2 oz oil for the evaporator and so on. R134a systems operate at higher discharge-side pressures than R12, which can cause compressor seals to leak. R134a is still used in the automotive industry as a refrigerant and in other industries, such as pharmaceuticals, as a propellant. See your PT chart. So as long as the system was functioning correctly and not leaking, it appeared that you could flush the system of any old oil, change the oil in the compressor to PAG or ester oil, replace only the receiver-drier and the o-rings, screw on the charging port adapters, evacuate the system, and recharge it with the new R134a, using about 80% as much as the original R12 volume. Santech R12 to R134a Coupler . There are significant differences between R12, R134a, and R513A, which must be considered when handling, processing, applying, or retrofitting with these refrigerants. But once youre on that path, you can improve the system with a new compressor and parallel-flow condenser which, in most cases, will allow you to get good results with R134a. All compressors require oils to lubricate the moving parts. The R12a cans use the same taps as the R134a cans and the supplied hose has R134a compatible fittings on both ends, so R12a can be used to recharge R134a systems too. R-12 and R-134a use different size fittings in order to avoid mixing the two types of refrigerant. As for R134a and R1234yf, theres no room for conversion. We suggest dumping the old refrigerant oil in a clean container and inspect the oil for sludge or waxing (old oil that has gelled) and contamination (metal particles). Before R12 was replaced with R134a in 1995, it was mostly used in trucks and cars. https://www.wiseautotools.com/mountain-quick-connect-r12-ac-gauge-conversion-to-134a/ A/C gauge conversion kits from R12 to R134A. The Difference Between Refrigerants R134A and R410A Gas? With that said, Ill agree that the flammability issue may not be as black-and-white as it appears. This gas is then cooled via environmental means, and the gas slowly loses heat and reverts to a liquid state. And with R134a costing only two bucks a can, converting to the new inexpensive refrigerant seemed the thing to do. Here are the basics for converting a system that does not have a charge of R12, its empty. R12 has not be manufactured for a long time it was outlawed in the US. R12 costs about 4 times as much as R134a. Also, if you want to know what happens if you put R134a in an R12 system, you should first confirm if the R12 system can be replaced or if the refrigerants can be mixed. Versus Ferrari F8 & Lamborghini Huracan Evo Cammisas Ultimate Drag Race Replay, Ultra RARE: Colin Chapmans Lotus Eleven + 327 Corvette Stingray with 4-speed | Barn Find Hunter Ep. Stay on the right side of the law, the environment, and your conscience, and dont vent refrigerant. Unfortunately, the R12 refrigerant doesnt always blow cold air. R134a is the most widely accepted alternative automotive refrigerant used to replace R12. The non-flammables can have R22 type gas which is not compatible with most rubber hoses or they have gases that contribute to global warming. R134a is classified as a dangerous greenhouse gas that contributes to global warming. R12 is recognized as a very stable compound, and it wont break down under even the most stringent conditions, but if it comes in contact with flames or electrical heating elements, it breaks down into toxic components. We consider the the various types alternative refrigerants that are illegal or not approved to be in two sectors: non-flammables and flammables. The main difference between R12, R134a, and R1234yf is their effect on the environment. If youre going to go to all that effort on a vintage car with an A/C system that hasnt been used in years, it usually behooves you do a full-on rejuvenation of the system and replace the compressor with a new compact rotary-style unit, replace the condenser with the largest parallel-flow condenser and big fan thatll fit in the nose of the car, make all new hoses, and flush the evaporator. Its highest value is 1. Buy online for free next day delivery or same day pickup at a store near you. Important Features: Color-coded Easy to use Made of high-quality brass Specific for R-134a Pros: Easy to operate. The system will be checked for gross leaks while under vacuum. Im not a lawyer, but charging a known-leaky system with something flammable sounds like culpable negligence to me. As R134a was touted as the replacement for R12, and the conversion of the refrigeration system to run R134a was relatively painless, many commercial installations use this refrigerant. If you use anything other than R134a, youll likely create a situation where you must be the one servicing the system. Find more info about me and HVAC Training 101. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Your email address will not be published. Google use cookies for serving our ads and handling visitor statistics. This is why it is crucially important that R134a systems be properly evacuated (pumped down to boil off any moisture) and kept sealed. Over time, a credible middle ground emerged. But in order for refrigeration to work, you need something that has a low boiling point, something that exists as a gas at room temperature and can be easily pressurized into a liquid so that, when it is allowed to expand, it immediately boils at room temperature and cools. This should give you a rough idea of how much youll need. The original expansion valves work very well with R134a. This item: R12 R22 R134a R404a Manifold Gauge Set 3" Gauge HVAC A/C Refrigeration Charging Service. If the target environment is only moderately hot, and your use of the car is light, R134a will probably be fine. And don't forget the high side pressures vary with ambient temperature. Initially, an invasive recipe was proposed: the system should be flushed to remove any traces of the old R12-specific mineral oil, the compressor and expansion valve should be replaced with R134a-specific versions to perform correctly, and the old hoses should be replaced with 134a-specific barrier hoses to forestall leakage. With a tight modernized system thatll accept either refrigerant, you should then consider where and how the system will be operated. . I have never see the other way around. Both of these compounds have similar cooling properties. When the temperature is reduced to-7C or below, the plants ability to cool the airdrops significantly. Doesnt contribute to the depletion of the ozone layer. Hope this helps Reply 10-10-2020, 01:12 PM #4 Chris Stritchko In Stock. Which brings us to. Piston Slap: Booting a Torino in a snap without snaps? Sign up for the latest automotive news and videosin short, everything for people who love cars. Anyway on the low side R134a runs about 2 psi lower than R12 at equivalent temperatures. We have the best A/C Manifold Gauge Set and Components for the right price. R12 has an ODP of 1, meaning that it has the highest potential to destroy the ozone layer. Unfortunately, the widespread use of R12 appeared to be significantly degrading the Earths ozone layer, potentially causing a worldwide health crisis. Because R-12 is no longer manufactured and has not been used in cars for over 20 years, this article will focus on systems designed for R-134a. Its chemical name is dichlorodifluoromethane, and its chemical formula is CCl2F2. R12 vs R134a Refrigerant: What is the Difference? - 2022 Complete Guide R12 is known as a CFC or chlorofluorocarbon, with a chemical symbol of CCl2F2. Not so fast. Given two identical vehicles, each with the same weighted amount of refrigerant, the vehicle with the R134a has the capability to remove more heat (measured in btus) from the vehicle than the same type of vehicle using the same amount of R12. R134a vs R12 refrigerant? Reattach the hose lines using new R134a compatible o-rings, lightly lubricate with compressor oil. Well worth the money if your A/C system is still in good shape. Many older automotive systems still use R12, and as youre still able to purchase individual small cans of this refrigerant via on-line marketplaces, its use in many classic motor vehicles will likely continue. Temperature and pressure chart for refrigerants R22, R410A, R12, R134A, R401A, R409A, R502, R404A, R507A, R408A and R402A. The money you will save by will pay for the R12. Thats simply not true. All leaks in systems using R134a must be repaired within 30 days. You can then add ester oil thatll work with either R12 or R134a. Its a safe product for use in a variety of domestic and commercial environments. You can find many videos and web forum posts where people retrofit R152a into cars that originally had R12 and profess excellent results, but it is not approved by the EPA for retrofit applications, only new car applications. R12 is known as a CFC or chlorofluorocarbon, with a chemical symbol of CCl2F2.